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	<title>Comments on: Surely they&#8217;ll do it this time&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.fustar.info/2008/06/06/603/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Gobsheen</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2008/06/06/603/#comment-77749</link>
		<dc:creator>Gobsheen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=603#comment-77749</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think I remember the commentator actually suggesting during the match that the game was an aberration and simply could not be happening, something had to be wrong, Spain could not lose to Nigeria!. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;em&gt;¡Este no puede ser!&lt;/em&gt; exclaimed a similar Spanish commentator when the Spanish International Handball team were defeated by the French...seems they have difficulty accepting that the days of the &lt;em&gt;Conquistadores&lt;/em&gt; may have ended some time ago.

As for the General Alcazar chin, it's a rather unfortunate Iberian characteristic which implies smugness. Its bearers face a similar fate to a child born with one eyebrow permanently raised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think I remember the commentator actually suggesting during the match that the game was an aberration and simply could not be happening, something had to be wrong, Spain could not lose to Nigeria!. </p></blockquote>
<p><em>¡Este no puede ser!</em> exclaimed a similar Spanish commentator when the Spanish International Handball team were defeated by the French&#8230;seems they have difficulty accepting that the days of the <em>Conquistadores</em> may have ended some time ago.</p>
<p>As for the General Alcazar chin, it&#8217;s a rather unfortunate Iberian characteristic which implies smugness. Its bearers face a similar fate to a child born with one eyebrow permanently raised.</p>
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		<title>By: fústar</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2008/06/06/603/#comment-77699</link>
		<dc:creator>fústar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>MM,

Raul didn't even make the squad - so Aragones (at least) doesn't consider him world class anymore.

It's reasonable to ask how often all-time greats are produced (or what countries produce 'em). I'd imagine that Balague's point was that having such a player in an already competent team gives you the extra push needed to win major competitions.

Actually, when you break it down like that it seems a pretty unremarkable and obvious point! Greece, for example, proved that you don't need great players (or even very &lt;em&gt;good&lt;/em&gt; players) to win things.

Still, it's hard to argue with the suggestion that Spain have never really produced someone of the class of Platini, Van Basten, Gullit, Zidane, Baggio, Hagi etc, etc. What that actually means RE:  their failures is, of course, another matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MM,</p>
<p>Raul didn&#8217;t even make the squad - so Aragones (at least) doesn&#8217;t consider him world class anymore.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s reasonable to ask how often all-time greats are produced (or what countries produce &#8216;em). I&#8217;d imagine that Balague&#8217;s point was that having such a player in an already competent team gives you the extra push needed to win major competitions.</p>
<p>Actually, when you break it down like that it seems a pretty unremarkable and obvious point! Greece, for example, proved that you don&#8217;t need great players (or even very <em>good</em> players) to win things.</p>
<p>Still, it&#8217;s hard to argue with the suggestion that Spain have never really produced someone of the class of Platini, Van Basten, Gullit, Zidane, Baggio, Hagi etc, etc. What that actually means RE:  their failures is, of course, another matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Mindful Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2008/06/06/603/#comment-77695</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindful Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Is Raul not considered to be world-class? Is Raul to be captain, in the starting eleven, is he injured? Apologies for all the questions, Sky taking my sport away from me, and a lack of tv over the past weeks, leaves me unaware.

The last true, all-time-great for England surely has to be Gascoigne. But that is easy to say, and besides, how many countries ever produce a true all-time-great? If we are to be sensible about it we can say very few indeed, for these players are few and far between.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Raul not considered to be world-class? Is Raul to be captain, in the starting eleven, is he injured? Apologies for all the questions, Sky taking my sport away from me, and a lack of tv over the past weeks, leaves me unaware.</p>
<p>The last true, all-time-great for England surely has to be Gascoigne. But that is easy to say, and besides, how many countries ever produce a true all-time-great? If we are to be sensible about it we can say very few indeed, for these players are few and far between.</p>
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		<title>By: fústar</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2008/06/06/603/#comment-77685</link>
		<dc:creator>fústar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Alcazar had the chin you speak of in spades. He was &lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; chin. 

&lt;div class="img-center"&gt; &lt;img src="http://www.fustar.info/wp-content/images/alcazar.jpg" alt="Alcazar" /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;

Tapioca (his main rival) had a more discrete one - sunk into the folds of his flabby face:

&lt;div class="img-center"&gt; &lt;img src="http://www.fustar.info/wp-content/images/tapioca.jpg" alt="Tapioca" /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;

I'm not sure where &lt;em&gt;Balague's&lt;/em&gt; chin fits in...perhaps somewhere between the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alcazar had the chin you speak of in spades. He was <em>all</em> chin. </p>
<div class="img-center"> <img src="http://www.fustar.info/wp-content/images/alcazar.jpg" alt="Alcazar" /></div>
<p>Tapioca (his main rival) had a more discrete one - sunk into the folds of his flabby face:</p>
<div class="img-center"> <img src="http://www.fustar.info/wp-content/images/tapioca.jpg" alt="Tapioca" /></div>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure where <em>Balague&#8217;s</em> chin fits in&#8230;perhaps somewhere between the two.</p>
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		<title>By: Cnuimh</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2008/06/06/603/#comment-77683</link>
		<dc:creator>Cnuimh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Damn! He was a general and he was Alcazar! I can't believe I mixed them up! Still, you got the reference... by his chin shall you know him
Balague is always much more balanced, a real commentator. I see he's now writing for www.as.com too</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn! He was a general and he was Alcazar! I can&#8217;t believe I mixed them up! Still, you got the reference&#8230; by his chin shall you know him<br />
Balague is always much more balanced, a real commentator. I see he&#8217;s now writing for <a href="http://www.as.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.as.com</a> too</p>
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		<title>By: fústar</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2008/06/06/603/#comment-77679</link>
		<dc:creator>fústar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>On a more serious note, &lt;a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/euro_2008/spain/7425206.stm" rel="nofollow"&gt;Guillem Balague&lt;/a&gt; has an original &#038; interesting theory about consistent Spanish failure...

&lt;blockquote&gt;"I don't think Spain have had that player to take them on to the next level for a long time, a player like Marco van Basten, or Zinedine Zidane - we have had famous players, but not world-class ones.

"Everywhere, especially in England, people have overestimated the value and quality of Spanish players, mainly because they can pass the ball and maybe do things the English guys cannot do as easily."&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I've never actually heard that view articulated. The fact that they have the players to do it is generally accepted as a given. 

It's a very similar situation with England - where (one could argue) the actual "world-class-ness" of the national squad is consistently overestimated. Who, for example, was the last English "all-time great"?

I should add that I'm not sure what to make of Balague's theory (maybe he's &lt;em&gt;under&lt;/em&gt;estimating the team) but it's certainly a refreshing take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a more serious note, <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/euro_2008/spain/7425206.stm" rel="nofollow">Guillem Balague</a> has an original &#038; interesting theory about consistent Spanish failure&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;I don&#8217;t think Spain have had that player to take them on to the next level for a long time, a player like Marco van Basten, or Zinedine Zidane - we have had famous players, but not world-class ones.</p>
<p>&#8220;Everywhere, especially in England, people have overestimated the value and quality of Spanish players, mainly because they can pass the ball and maybe do things the English guys cannot do as easily.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve never actually heard that view articulated. The fact that they have the players to do it is generally accepted as a given. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a very similar situation with England - where (one could argue) the actual &#8220;world-class-ness&#8221; of the national squad is consistently overestimated. Who, for example, was the last English &#8220;all-time great&#8221;?</p>
<p>I should add that I&#8217;m not sure what to make of Balague&#8217;s theory (maybe he&#8217;s <em>under</em>estimating the team) but it&#8217;s certainly a refreshing take.</p>
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		<title>By: fústar</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2008/06/06/603/#comment-77678</link>
		<dc:creator>fústar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 12:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=603#comment-77678</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think I remember the commentator actually suggesting during the match that the game was an aberration and simply could not be happening, something had to be wrong, Spain could not lose to Nigeria!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That's priceless. It's like Brecht's &lt;em&gt;Galileo&lt;/em&gt;! 

"Here have a look in my telescope, Church fathers", says he, "and you'll &lt;em&gt;see&lt;/em&gt; the proof of what I claim. Copernicus' heliocentric model of the universe is correct!"

"We don't have to look", say they, "For we know that this &lt;em&gt;cannot&lt;/em&gt; be. Whatever we see in that tube of yours would &lt;em&gt;have to&lt;/em&gt; be a mere illusion. Like Spain's defeat to Nigeria centuries from now".

RE: "Colonel Tapioca" - wasn't he a &lt;em&gt;General&lt;/em&gt;?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think I remember the commentator actually suggesting during the match that the game was an aberration and simply could not be happening, something had to be wrong, Spain could not lose to Nigeria!</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s priceless. It&#8217;s like Brecht&#8217;s <em>Galileo</em>! </p>
<p>&#8220;Here have a look in my telescope, Church fathers&#8221;, says he, &#8220;and you&#8217;ll <em>see</em> the proof of what I claim. Copernicus&#8217; heliocentric model of the universe is correct!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;We don&#8217;t have to look&#8221;, say they, &#8220;For we know that this <em>cannot</em> be. Whatever we see in that tube of yours would <em>have to</em> be a mere illusion. Like Spain&#8217;s defeat to Nigeria centuries from now&#8221;.</p>
<p>RE: &#8220;Colonel Tapioca&#8221; - wasn&#8217;t he a <em>General</em>?!</p>
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