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	<title>Comments on: Dreadful Thoughts Story Club 11: The Upper Berth</title>
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		<title>By: fústar</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-167503</link>
		<dc:creator>fústar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-167503</guid>
		<description>Those cabins can be rather claustrophobia-inducing and airless so any escape of gases would tend to build up to unendurable levels quite quickly.

I do enjoy how often in Victorian stories an uncanny experience is put down to a bad meal, or over stimulation, or green tea, or unhealthy vapours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those cabins can be rather claustrophobia-inducing and airless so any escape of gases would tend to build up to unendurable levels quite quickly.</p>
<p>I do enjoy how often in Victorian stories an uncanny experience is put down to a bad meal, or over stimulation, or green tea, or unhealthy vapours.</p>
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		<title>By: Dreadful Thoughts: A Double Dose of Nesbit - Fustar - Recycling Cultural Waste Since 2005</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-167485</link>
		<dc:creator>Dreadful Thoughts: A Double Dose of Nesbit - Fustar - Recycling Cultural Waste Since 2005</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-167485</guid>
		<description>[...] an enjoyable week spent discussing terrible slimy yokes in bunks and grimly determined brutes with small heads, we [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an enjoyable week spent discussing terrible slimy yokes in bunks and grimly determined brutes with small heads, we [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-167206</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-167206</guid>
		<description>So in fact, this may have been the reason the ghost insisted on having the  porthole open, and the actual source of the fetid smell?

Perhaps the earlier unfortunates were  actually rushing to relieve themelves, fell overboard while balancing precariously on the railing?

&#039;It was the Welsh Rarebit!&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So in fact, this may have been the reason the ghost insisted on having the  porthole open, and the actual source of the fetid smell?</p>
<p>Perhaps the earlier unfortunates were  actually rushing to relieve themelves, fell overboard while balancing precariously on the railing?</p>
<p>&#8216;It was the Welsh Rarebit!&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: A Doubtful Egg</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-167193</link>
		<dc:creator>A Doubtful Egg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-167193</guid>
		<description>Or the working classes, who ranked below atoms in the Victorian scheme of things. 
I think we&#039;ve hit on something with digestion here. After a huge feed of ship&#039;s grog and Welsh rarebit, coupled with some furious games of whist, who wouldn&#039;t have something horrible coming out of their porthole? (Forgive the scatalogical humour; I couldn&#039;t resist...) Perhaps the thin man fled not because of the ghost, but from the noises issuing from Brisbane&#039;s manly belly (of course, Brisbane wouldn&#039;t include this detail in his story!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or the working classes, who ranked below atoms in the Victorian scheme of things.<br />
I think we&#8217;ve hit on something with digestion here. After a huge feed of ship&#8217;s grog and Welsh rarebit, coupled with some furious games of whist, who wouldn&#8217;t have something horrible coming out of their porthole? (Forgive the scatalogical humour; I couldn&#8217;t resist&#8230;) Perhaps the thin man fled not because of the ghost, but from the noises issuing from Brisbane&#8217;s manly belly (of course, Brisbane wouldn&#8217;t include this detail in his story!)</p>
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		<title>By: fústar</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-167156</link>
		<dc:creator>fústar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-167156</guid>
		<description>Only lilly-livered, effeminate, arty types try to understand &amp; empathise with ghosts. Manly, small-headed, action men like Brisbane spit on their hands, roll up their sleeves, and punch spectres square on the jaw (even if they&#039;re incorporeal and the blows don&#039;t connect).

One of the greatest and maddest exponents of the Victorian love of diligence and domination was Edward Booth - who set himself the demented goal of shooting one of every single species of bird in Britain.

Had he accomplished this feat he would most likely have next turned his attention to shooting insects. Or microscopic organisms. Or atoms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only lilly-livered, effeminate, arty types try to understand &#038; empathise with ghosts. Manly, small-headed, action men like Brisbane spit on their hands, roll up their sleeves, and punch spectres square on the jaw (even if they&#8217;re incorporeal and the blows don&#8217;t connect).</p>
<p>One of the greatest and maddest exponents of the Victorian love of diligence and domination was Edward Booth &#8211; who set himself the demented goal of shooting one of every single species of bird in Britain.</p>
<p>Had he accomplished this feat he would most likely have next turned his attention to shooting insects. Or microscopic organisms. Or atoms.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-167040</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-167040</guid>
		<description>True, but that Welsh Rarebit certainly plays havoc with the digestion.

Brisbane clearly possessed neither nerves nor bowels of steel!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, but that Welsh Rarebit certainly plays havoc with the digestion.</p>
<p>Brisbane clearly possessed neither nerves nor bowels of steel!</p>
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		<title>By: A Doubtful Egg</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-167020</link>
		<dc:creator>A Doubtful Egg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-167020</guid>
		<description>A clue to Brisbane&#039;s motive comes in the following: &quot;I made up my mind not to be prevented from going to end of the strange business. I abstained from Welsh rarebits and grog that evening, and did not even join in the customary game of whist. I wanted to be quite sure of my nerves, &lt;em&gt;and my vanity made me anxious to appear a good figure in the captain&#039;s eyes.&lt;/em&gt;&quot; (My italics). It&#039;s all about saving face, maintaining that stiff upper lip... (and not having your nerves shredded at whist; whoever thought it was such an extreme game?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A clue to Brisbane&#8217;s motive comes in the following: &#8220;I made up my mind not to be prevented from going to end of the strange business. I abstained from Welsh rarebits and grog that evening, and did not even join in the customary game of whist. I wanted to be quite sure of my nerves, <em>and my vanity made me anxious to appear a good figure in the captain&#8217;s eyes.</em>&#8221; (My italics). It&#8217;s all about saving face, maintaining that stiff upper lip&#8230; (and not having your nerves shredded at whist; whoever thought it was such an extreme game?)</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-166937</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-166937</guid>
		<description>Hee, what a great comment. Savage invisible pigs, eh? A common scourge these days too... 

This reminds me of what I took from the Swiss Family Robinson. The bizarre tale of a family running round an island, shooting at things. What is it? I don&#039;t know! Shoot it!! 

Except for the bit when the giant anaconda crawls out of the swamp and eats their donkey whole, and they all stand round watching. 

Odd. 

Excuse the tangent there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hee, what a great comment. Savage invisible pigs, eh? A common scourge these days too&#8230; </p>
<p>This reminds me of what I took from the Swiss Family Robinson. The bizarre tale of a family running round an island, shooting at things. What is it? I don&#8217;t know! Shoot it!! </p>
<p>Except for the bit when the giant anaconda crawls out of the swamp and eats their donkey whole, and they all stand round watching. </p>
<p>Odd. </p>
<p>Excuse the tangent there.</p>
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		<title>By: A Doubtful Egg</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-166929</link>
		<dc:creator>A Doubtful Egg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-166929</guid>
		<description>Sorry to pop in so late: a bit of a rough week. I really like this story &lt;em&gt;because&lt;/em&gt;, aside from its strong imagery (which must have been pretty robust for the time!) because of its lack of a moral resolution or even a real explanation for the creature, which goes against the grain of so many Victorian stories. I feel that Peanuthead Brisbane&#039;s he-man determination to deal with the problem is fairly typical of Victorian heroes, who tended to combine a startling lack of imagination with colossal strength. It&#039;s the good ol&#039; Imperial &quot;climb Mt Everest/overrun subcontinents&quot; mentality: you tackle any challenge simply because it&#039;s there! &lt;em&gt;The House on the Borderland&lt;/em&gt; by William Hope Hodgson is a good example of this: the hero&#039;s house is assaulted nightly by savage invisible pigs, so he stays up all night shooting at them rather than just leaving!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to pop in so late: a bit of a rough week. I really like this story <em>because</em>, aside from its strong imagery (which must have been pretty robust for the time!) because of its lack of a moral resolution or even a real explanation for the creature, which goes against the grain of so many Victorian stories. I feel that Peanuthead Brisbane&#8217;s he-man determination to deal with the problem is fairly typical of Victorian heroes, who tended to combine a startling lack of imagination with colossal strength. It&#8217;s the good ol&#8217; Imperial &#8220;climb Mt Everest/overrun subcontinents&#8221; mentality: you tackle any challenge simply because it&#8217;s there! <em>The House on the Borderland</em> by William Hope Hodgson is a good example of this: the hero&#8217;s house is assaulted nightly by savage invisible pigs, so he stays up all night shooting at them rather than just leaving!</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-166710</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-166710</guid>
		<description>Oh no! Quick, compliment  me, reverse the affliction!

I think it&#039;s more anti scientist. It&#039;s true, about the need to poke, classify and control all that we don&#039;t understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh no! Quick, compliment  me, reverse the affliction!</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s more anti scientist. It&#8217;s true, about the need to poke, classify and control all that we don&#8217;t understand.</p>
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		<title>By: fústar</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-166615</link>
		<dc:creator>fústar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-166615</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Brisbane was resolute in his determination - to what? Prove the superstitious wrong? Why was he so insistent, so set on keeping the window closed, on staying in the room?

Something parallel to his walnut cracking, a Small Head Complex, perchance?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ha! Indeed. Small-headed men are always angry rationalists. 

His determination is rather bizarre alright. If it&#039;s intentionally so (i.e. intended by &lt;em&gt;Crawford&lt;/em&gt;) then it could be read as a sly critique of &quot;masculine&quot; labelling, classification and control. If accidental then it might just be sloppy writing. I&#039;m willing to give F. Marion the benefit of the doubt.

Brisbane definitely seems challenged and unmanned by the &quot;thing&#039;s&quot; supernatural persistence. As I said, he wants to break its doomed routine. To what end? To put an end to this inexplicable cycle perhaps, so small-headed men the world over can sleep soundly in their bunks.


&lt;blockquote&gt;
I’m still frustrated by the lack of back story. WHY that cabin? Does it come in the window? Who was the returning corpse? Where does it run to?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sounds like you&#039;re being afflicted by a touch of small-headed Brisbane-ness yourself!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Brisbane was resolute in his determination &#8211; to what? Prove the superstitious wrong? Why was he so insistent, so set on keeping the window closed, on staying in the room?</p>
<p>Something parallel to his walnut cracking, a Small Head Complex, perchance?</p></blockquote>
<p>Ha! Indeed. Small-headed men are always angry rationalists. </p>
<p>His determination is rather bizarre alright. If it&#8217;s intentionally so (i.e. intended by <em>Crawford</em>) then it could be read as a sly critique of &#8220;masculine&#8221; labelling, classification and control. If accidental then it might just be sloppy writing. I&#8217;m willing to give F. Marion the benefit of the doubt.</p>
<p>Brisbane definitely seems challenged and unmanned by the &#8220;thing&#8217;s&#8221; supernatural persistence. As I said, he wants to break its doomed routine. To what end? To put an end to this inexplicable cycle perhaps, so small-headed men the world over can sleep soundly in their bunks.</p>
<blockquote><p>
I’m still frustrated by the lack of back story. WHY that cabin? Does it come in the window? Who was the returning corpse? Where does it run to?</p></blockquote>
<p>Sounds like you&#8217;re being afflicted by a touch of small-headed Brisbane-ness yourself!</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-166610</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-166610</guid>
		<description>Brisbane was resolute in his determination - to what? Prove the superstitious wrong? Why was he so insistent, so set on keeping the window closed, on staying in the room? 

Something parallel to his walnut cracking, a Small Head Complex, perchance?

I&#039;m still frustrated by the lack of back story. WHY that cabin? Does it come in the window? Who was the returning corpse? Where does it run to?

Brisbane should have done more research!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brisbane was resolute in his determination &#8211; to what? Prove the superstitious wrong? Why was he so insistent, so set on keeping the window closed, on staying in the room? </p>
<p>Something parallel to his walnut cracking, a Small Head Complex, perchance?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still frustrated by the lack of back story. WHY that cabin? Does it come in the window? Who was the returning corpse? Where does it run to?</p>
<p>Brisbane should have done more research!</p>
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		<title>By: fústar</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-166602</link>
		<dc:creator>fústar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-166602</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Because otherwise it’s just an animated, drowned corpse?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Just an animated drowned corpse?? &lt;em&gt;Just&lt;/em&gt;?? You&#039;re obviously made of sterner stuff than me if animated drowned corpses don&#039;t scare ya!

But seriously, while Sinéad is right I still think the description was &lt;em&gt;just&lt;/em&gt; sketchy enough to keep the &quot;fill in the gaps&quot; imagination fear centres ticking over. 

Agree that the crumpled linen face in &quot;Oh Whistle&quot; is one of the most unnerving images in the whole of uncanny literature (or as much of it as I&#039;ve read). Blank like a mask. Dead like a doll&#039;s face. Shapeless and abstract. It ticks so many boxes.

I do enjoy how abruptly the story ends:

&lt;blockquote&gt;That is how I saw a ghost -- if it was a ghost. It was dead, anyhow.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The thing wasn&#039;t alive yet was alive. It was dead but animated and physical - not really a ghost. A ghoul? A zombie? Its malevolence seemed motivated by great torment and sadness. No self-possessed, gleefully evil creature this. It&#039;s wretched and doomed (like a ghost) to repeat its actions over and over again. 

You can&#039;t blame it for lashing out at Brisbane. He was trying to interrupt/break the cycle - not to help it, but to contain, explain or destroy it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Because otherwise it’s just an animated, drowned corpse?</p></blockquote>
<p>Just an animated drowned corpse?? <em>Just</em>?? You&#8217;re obviously made of sterner stuff than me if animated drowned corpses don&#8217;t scare ya!</p>
<p>But seriously, while Sinéad is right I still think the description was <em>just</em> sketchy enough to keep the &#8220;fill in the gaps&#8221; imagination fear centres ticking over. </p>
<p>Agree that the crumpled linen face in &#8220;Oh Whistle&#8221; is one of the most unnerving images in the whole of uncanny literature (or as much of it as I&#8217;ve read). Blank like a mask. Dead like a doll&#8217;s face. Shapeless and abstract. It ticks so many boxes.</p>
<p>I do enjoy how abruptly the story ends:</p>
<blockquote><p>That is how I saw a ghost &#8212; if it was a ghost. It was dead, anyhow.</p></blockquote>
<p>The thing wasn&#8217;t alive yet was alive. It was dead but animated and physical &#8211; not really a ghost. A ghoul? A zombie? Its malevolence seemed motivated by great torment and sadness. No self-possessed, gleefully evil creature this. It&#8217;s wretched and doomed (like a ghost) to repeat its actions over and over again. </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t blame it for lashing out at Brisbane. He was trying to interrupt/break the cycle &#8211; not to help it, but to contain, explain or destroy it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-166581</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-166581</guid>
		<description>Because otherwise it&#039;s just an animated, drowned corpse?

I have to say, the scariest one for me was a similar tale, &#039;I&#039;ll Whistle For You, My Lad&#039;?, with the ghost made of sheet. Again, because of the lack of substance and description, I spose.

That works for me, as does something a little bit off - like the idea of waking up to see your partner staring at you coldly, themself but malevolent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because otherwise it&#8217;s just an animated, drowned corpse?</p>
<p>I have to say, the scariest one for me was a similar tale, &#8216;I&#8217;ll Whistle For You, My Lad&#8217;?, with the ghost made of sheet. Again, because of the lack of substance and description, I spose.</p>
<p>That works for me, as does something a little bit off &#8211; like the idea of waking up to see your partner staring at you coldly, themself but malevolent.</p>
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		<title>By: Sinéad</title>
		<link>http://www.fustar.info/2009/04/13/dreadful-thoughts-story-club-11-the-upper-berth/comment-page-1/#comment-166522</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinéad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fustar.info/?p=1028#comment-166522</guid>
		<description>On the point of Crawford giving too much away about the creature, here&#039;s the paragraph where he describes it. If you read only the bolded parts (allowing for the grammatical inserts), it&#039;s more effective. 

&quot;&lt;strong&gt;It was something ghostly, horrible beyond words, and it moved in my grip.&lt;/strong&gt; It was like the body of a man long drowned, and yet it moved, &lt;strong&gt; (It)had the strength of ten men living; but I gripped it with all my might -- the slippery, oozy, horrible thing &lt;/strong&gt;-- the dead white eyes seemed to stare at me out of the dusk; &lt;strong&gt; the putrid odour of rank sea-water was about it,&lt;/strong&gt; and its shiny hair hung in foul wet curls over its dead face.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the point of Crawford giving too much away about the creature, here&#8217;s the paragraph where he describes it. If you read only the bolded parts (allowing for the grammatical inserts), it&#8217;s more effective. </p>
<p>&#8220;<strong>It was something ghostly, horrible beyond words, and it moved in my grip.</strong> It was like the body of a man long drowned, and yet it moved, <strong> (It)had the strength of ten men living; but I gripped it with all my might &#8212; the slippery, oozy, horrible thing </strong>&#8211; the dead white eyes seemed to stare at me out of the dusk; <strong> the putrid odour of rank sea-water was about it,</strong> and its shiny hair hung in foul wet curls over its dead face.</p>
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